Millions of people deal with chronic pain, and the guy I wish they could ALL see is Dr. Jeff Matheson. He has helped thousands of people find pain relief, and get off of medications and their ugly side effects, through his revolutionary techniques.
Dr. Jeff Matheson has trained over 70 physicians in the practice of pain management, and established the Headache, Migraine and Pain Treatment Centre in Ajax, Ontario that hosts a new, non-narcotic approach to pain management using neuroplasticity principles.
Listen to the podcast here:
He was a full-time Emergency Room physician for 15 years, Medical Director of Med-Emerg Inc. from 1998 to 2013, and Founder of CPM Medical Clinics (Pain Management) which became the largest Canadian provider of pain management in 2005 to present, setting standards to which all clinics must be certified by the College of Physicians and Surgeons Ontario.
Download the interview by clicking on this link:
Non-Pharmacological pain management recording.
Dr. Matheson also highly recommends a high quality Turmeric product in this episode. Click here to check out Mimi’s Miracle Turmeric.
Transcript. Well worth the read if you would prefer to read than listen. If you have chronic pain, or know somebody who does, and you want to avoid the side effects of drugs, this is well worth the time!
About Doctor Matheson, chronic pain expert
I graduated from University of Western Ontario with a four year degree in biochemistry and then specifically I did a lot of lipid bio chemistry, which at the time was considered kind of a dead area. But I did get into medical school and then my fours in medicine and did my residency and started practicing emergency medicine for the first 15 years of my career. And I became medical director of an emergency staffing company. So I worked in about 18 different emergency rooms are around Canada and internationally. and so I got to see the sort of acute pain and acute side of medicine. and it taught me a great deal of humility because one thing about emergency room medicine is that you’ll always run into something you’ve never seen before and it teaches you to always learn.
But what happened was I was getting to the stage where my kids were getting to school age and emergency room work also not very conducive to good family life, you might say, because there’s a lot of evenings, nights, weekends, things like that. And so what I was finding is that I was not seeing my kids very much. So I just decided to make a change because I had a friend who started working at a pain clinic and it was a procedural based pain clinic. So I started doing work there and I quickly realized that there was no sort of standardization of approaches to pain management, indeed in North America. It seems like anybody and anyone could get into this. So, I decided to organize a course for some of my colleagues to learn about pain management and trying to standardize the practice of pain management.
And we ended up starting a company called CPM, which became the largest pain management company in Canada. We’ve had 12 clinics across Canada and over 70 physicians. And we standardized the practice of pain management that the regulatory body here still follows to this day. About six years ago or seven years ago now, I was getting to my late forties, early fifties, and, and you know, had a bit of arthritic wrists and some low back issues. And I was about 20 pounds overweight and six inches bigger in my waist. And someone convinced me to try and intervene to get healthier and I was not working out, I was not doing any of that sort of stuff. I was your typical overworked physician, with a little extra poundage. And when I went on a sort of nutritional regime, within the next several months I had lost 20 pounds and six inches in my waist and my arthritic wrist went away.
A different approach to pain management…
Something is different about this approach. So I actually tried it with a few of my patients. I had four patients lose 100 pounds within eight months and come off 80% of the medications. And of course I realized that this is not what I was taught at medical school. So I left that sort of more traditional medical world and graduated over to a more natural approach to pain management, which is what I still do today. I still run a full time practice in pain management, but I rarely prescribe anything and people get healthier and I have the best medical practice I think you could have right now.
Dave: We do see traditional medicine more and more taking on natural approaches. Are you seeing a big shift generally in that direction or do you think it’s kind of slower or do you not see it happening at all? What’s your take on what’s happening generally on medicine?
It’s starting, it’s interesting. When I first started this practice, the referrals we would get were people who were on a lot of medication. And that’s what I saw in my pain practice. I was maxing out on doses of all these medications and people weren’t getting better, they weren’t getting back to work. And now I’m starting to see the patients when they’re referred in, they’re already on some kind of a health regime that have that like, neurologists have actually advised them to do, which is kind of interesting. So there is things are changing, people are starting to realize that that our traditional western approach to management of chronic diseases is really failing us. And they’re family doctors, and doctors in general want to do a good job by their patients and they want to make positive changes.
And we’ve now have a situation where we have sort of a finite number of medications in this area and there hasn’t been really a new pain management medication introduced in the past 10 to 15 years. And so people are quite familiar with these medications and what they do, and they find that they don’t work in the longterm. So it’s very interesting that that when I talk to physicians or get referrals in, patients are already been put on some sort of nutritional regime by their family doctors or by the neurologist, which is pretty groundbreaking from my perspective.
Dave: That’s great. And I want to hone in on another thing you said that is really fascinating to me. Did you say that in your pain management clinics are not prescribing any drugs?
Helping people get healthier, and off of pain medication
Very rarely. I usually take people off a lot of medication. It’s interesting because if you see someone who comes in and they’re on six medications or more, statistically speaking, you can’t predict the side effects of all his medications. So if you’re talking about someone who’s in a lot of pain, number one prioritiy, you’ve got to get them off some of these medications. And your listeners are probably familiar with this. in Canada we don’t have as much problem with it, but in the states, when you have a problem you often get referred off to a specialist who then they come back with a medication, then you get referred to another specialist. They also come up with a medication and the family doctor is left with this patient that’s been put on five, six, seven, eight different medications all by different doctors and now doesn’t want to discontinue any of them. Right. And so you end up with this population and polypharmacy going on. And the problem is you end up with this pile of medications, you have no idea what’s really happening to the patient anymore once you get on that many medications,
Dave: It’s awful. I’ve got a friend who’s just turned 65 and last year won a triathlon and I don’t mean won his age group, I mean won the whole race and just very, very fit at the age of 65. And he tells me every year when he goes in for his physical, he’s always asked, what medications are you on? And he says none. And they go, no, no, no. Well you’ve got to be taking something. And he says, it often takes four or five attempts to make it clear to this nurse that he’s not on any medications. They just can’t believe it because it just seems to be the norm to be 65 years old and on some kind of drug.
Well it’s getting more scary that our children, I think a recent study came out saying that one in 10 US children are now on a medication. And one in five are on two or more. I find that very alarming because we don’t have studies that show that’s safe at all. We’re about developing brains and other things. You know, one of my patients you know, her son was put on Prozac at five years old. I’ve never, I couldn’t believe it. I’ve never seen anything like that before.
Dave: And as a physician, you were brought up, so to speak, in the traditional way of thinking, which did include a lot of medications and treating symptoms. And yet you now alarmed by the system.
America, the most heavily medicated society in the world and the least healthy?
Yes. It’s gone overboard. We’re the most heavily medicated society in the world and the least healthy.
Dave: And so, and so talk to us about these natural methods of pain management. I mean there’s gotta be people listening right now who have some sort of chronic pain who would love the idea of treating their pain without medication.
The Science of non-pharmacological pain management
If you look at it, almost all diseases are now coming down to the mitochondrial level. So I remind everybody about their grade 11 or grade 12 cell biology and all that sort of stuff, we have a cell that we’re all made up of that are surrounded by a membrane. But the powerhouse of that cell are the Mitochondria, which are these little organelles within the cell to produce energy that drives every system in our body. And what’s happening is, when you start coming down to all the root cause of all these diseases, including all pain diseases, it seems to be a dysfunction of those mitochondria in some way. So the mitochondria do not produce enough energy. And if you think about it, if your body is requiring more energy than their mitochondria can produce, then you’re going to have a shortfall. And that shortfall is going to exhibit itself as s0me sort of inflammatory issue. It’s basically the Mitochondria calling out for more help because the energy demands are outstripping the ability to apply energy. So anything that you can do to make that Mitochondria healthier, it’s gonna help you overall.
Dave: Okay. So it’s kind of about treating, so to speak to the Mitochondria, giving the cells what they need. Right?
The Mitochondria’s Role In Healthy Cells
Exactly. So, okay, so my basic approach to all this is I try and give the Mitochondria supplementation that helps it be more efficient in producing energy, but also the contrary side you have to look at dietary issues that are introducing things that are causing harm to the Mitochondria. And we have a multitude of those issues and our food supply today. So, you know, you’re pretty much rule number one is you have to eat organic. I mean, you can’t get around it any longer the amount of herbicides and pesticides in our food is excessive. If you look at the amount, over a 15 year period, you notice that, well, there’s a publication that came out, I think it was last year showing that there’s about 1200% more herbicide glyphosate in our urine than there was 15 years ago.
I don’t know if I’m allowed to say trade names, but it’s also called Roundup by the company that’s lost two big lawsuits. That amount of toxin load, our Mitochondria can’t handle that. And so we’re starting to see all these diseases at younger and younger ages. So, I started practicing medicine and you know, 29 years ago, for example, and I’m sure a lot of your listeners can sympathize with this. Arthritis is something that we didn’t see until our seventies, eighties or nineties. And now we’re seeing in our forties, 50s, and sixties. So, you know, that’s an inflammatory problem. And why are we seeing such a young age now? Right? cancer, I mean, cancer, when I was a kid in the late sixties, I didn’t know anyone who had cancer and my parent’s knew very few people who had cancer.
Those Pesky Chronic Diseases…
But now I’m in my fifties and I’ve already had friends die of cancer and that never happened back then. So we are starting to get chronic disease and these very serious diseases at younger and younger ages. I always look at, sort of, the big system. So, say, look at dogs today. Dogs have the highest rate of cancer of any animal in the world, 80% of dogs will get cancer in their lifetime. And when I was a kid, dogs used to live until 20, 21. I find it rare to find a dog over the age of 14 now. And because their life cycles shorter, they’re eating the same thing we are there, it’s coming our way. And for the last three years in United States, life expectancy has dropped. So we’re in for a very rough ride over the next few years.
Dave: OK a couple of thoughts on that. First of all, we have a group here in the states called the Environmental Working Group that does a really good job of testing those vegetables and fruits that are most likely to be contaminated the most with pesticides. And for those of you listening, if you go on our website, dirobi.co And click on the resources page, we took the environmental working groups, dirty dozen, the worst 12 offenders that you really have to buy organic and the clean 15, those that are more likely to be clean. And We created a pdf that you can download, print out, put on your fridge. So regarding organic I highly recommend that, it’s super interesting. And this is a group that actually tests the pollutants, pollutants isn’t the right word with pesticides and whatnot, right?
Some of these things were, were discovered to have, I think it was over 200, it was some ridiculous number of contaminants.
And so make sure you get that and pay attention to that because I absolutely agree with doctor what Dr. Matheson said about organic and there are those that you just really cannot eat the regular version of some of these vegetables and fruits. I don’t if you have anything like that in Canada. Of course now my parents live in Canada. I go there fairly often and my mom swears that the conditions are better there. That, in terms of what farmers put on their crops, that we have things here in the United States that are illegal in Canada. Do you feel like things are cleaner in Canada than in the US?
US Bad, Canada Good, Europe Better.
They are cleaner, although we’re always running five years behind. So, what happens is there’s this creep that comes in, but here’s an interesting story about that a patient told me. So my patient happens to work in a cereal factory and so they have various batches of the grains that come into make into cereal. The organic ones are made into cereal and shipped to Europe. The somewhat contaminated ones are made for Canada and the very contaminated ones are made for the United States. And as she was telling me this story, I’m going up, this is unbelievable. But in the Europe, they actually test everything very rigidly. Health Canada does some testing but not of everything. And the United States seems to be just wide open. There just doesn’t seem to be any regulations at all. Or the regulations are much more lax as far as the amount you’re allowed to put into food. And that was pretty scary. You know, and you see it reflected in the health. I mean, as I said, in the United States life expectancy is falling. It’s going to accelerate downward. We’ve already tipped over the edge.
Dave: You know, as I listen to that story. Here’s what’s interesting. I spent time in Europe. We actually went as a family for 90 days in 2015 to Europe. It was an incredible getaway. And, and we loved the food. I mean, everything from Great Britain, Scotland, Germany, France, everywhere we went, the food was incredible. Even the simplest of foods like butters and breads and meats seemed to taste better. And we found that, food, even the basic foods seemed more natural and to taste better. And then, like I said, my parents are in Canada. I go there four times a year to visit my parents and I always look forward to getting into the Fraser Valley near Vancouver, BC where they grow their own blueberries and strawberries and crops. And, and we go to this farmer’s market to buy eggs and food. And what you’re telling me really fits with my own life experience that, difference between Europe to Canada to the US. So anecdotal, but it sure fits with my own experience.
Turns Our, Healthy Foods Are Better Than Unhealthy Foods. 🙂
Yeah. I have, I have patients or even friends like Italians will have a certain diet heavy in the pasta and stuff and they’ll be 20, 30, 40 pounds overweight here and they go to Italy to visit home. They’re they eat the exact same stuff, but they lose 20 pounds like instantly and they feel so much better even though they’re eating the same stuff. So, there’s stuff in our food here that shouldn’t be there and it’s causing a lot of issues.
Interesting. Okay. So I’m sure that this message resonates with a lot of people listening. I mean, if you’re in the health world at all these things are saying makes sense. And we’re hearing this type of thing from multiple sources. And so your life experience certainly resonates with me. And so now let’s swing back to the pain management. So you’re starting with diet or making sure that they’re trying to get rid of toxins and source causes of the problem. And then you’re also using supplementation. So talk to us about that. Patient comes to you, they’ve got chronic pain, what do you do?
Supplementing a Reduced Pain and Inflammation Lifestyle
Yes. So, when it comes to supplementation you have to divide into sort of the macro level or macro nutrient level and the micronutrient level. So the macro nutrient level is stuff we’re actually made of, which is carbohydrates, protein and fats or lipids. The micro level is all the B vitamins a vitamin D you know, other things like curcumin and things like that. But, until you fix the structure of a cell, it’s hard to fix the inside of a cell. So I work a lot with the membrane of the cell. So I actually give people advice on how to supplement to get the membrane better. And the membrane is made of fats. And what’s very interesting is their approach to fats, which radically changed in the 60s, and has probably contributed a lot to the chronic illness we see today.
Things Always Go Better When The Government Gets Involved!
I don’t know how far you go back. But there was a guy named Ancel Keys who was very influential in influencing the American diet back in the late sixties. It turns out he was good friends with George Mcgovern and George McGovern was instrumental in coming up with the first food guide in the United States. What happened was when that food guide came out, obesity took off and chronic disease took off with it. And it was because it was the first guide that prescribed a low fat, high carbohydrate diet. And if your body’s cell membranes are actually made of fats then a low fat diet is the worst thing you can do for it. Now, in the sort of mid to late seventies, people thought that you should be supplementing with fish oil to restore that fat balance. This thinking that came in that we had too much omega 6 in our diet, we should have more Omega three, and Omega six was pro inflammatory and Omega 3 was anti-inflammatory. And that’s actually not based in any science at all. And I’m not even sure where that inkling came from, but it’s become a mantra in the natural world.
A Fishy Story About Pain Management and Omegas.
But if you actually look at structure of the cell membrane, most of the cell membrane or 25 to 33% of it is made of omega six which is called lineolic acid. It’s one of the essential fatty acids. Now that essential fatty acid is an 18 carbon fatty acid from plants. It’s not from fish. We do not get it from fish. And so if I’m going to restore the cell membrane, I want to give the body what the membrane is made of and it’s made of mostly omega six in fact, when it comes to Mitochondria, which is the energy producer of the cell, 40% of that membrane is made of Omega six and it turns out the Cardiolipin, which is this lipid, they call it a lipid raft, but basically it’s the end…
All the enzymatic reactions that take place in the Mitochondria to produce energy all occur on that Cardiolipin. And that is 100% omega six. So it turns out that proper Omega six is the key to successful restoration of cell membrane function. Now this is where things, you know, say, well, what’s unique about Omega six or Liniolic acid. And this is the most fascinating thing that I found and there’s only one paper that’s ever looked at it and was published in the late seventies and it was the Cystic Fibrosis paper of all things. But they actually compared the oxygen dissociation curve, which is the oxygen binding capacity of linoleic acid to hemoglobin. And they found they’re almost identical. And that was extremely fascinating to me because when I went through biochemistry and went through medical school, I was always taught that oxygen got through the membrane passively.
The Omega 6 Myth
It was just a diffusion across. But that’s not not true. It’s actually bound by that Omega six brought to the Mitochondria, and that oxygen is used in all those energy producing reactions to produce energy for the cell. So if you have the proper omega six in there, you actually increased the rate in which auctions used and better energy production. And that kind of makes sense because oxygen is, is way too unstable to just have floating in a cell. It can’t do that if nature doesn’t do random things. And and so it’s not the fact that we have too much omega six in her diet. We have too much processed omega 6 diet. If you look at the way that we processed vegetable oils today, you will see that they’re heated multiple times. And when you heat them, you oxidize them. And that means rancidity.
So if you smell an oxidized oil, it smells like rotten fish. That’s when you go into a fish market, that smell, that’s all rancid fats. So what the producers of these vegetable oils do is they de-colored them, they filter them and they deodorize them. And so what you’re actually doing is you’re using a dead Omega six oil in your cooking. And when you eat it that dead Omega six can’t get to your cell membrane and oxygen can’t get to the Mitochondria. They’re forgetting relative oxygen deficiency and you get chronic pain, chronic disease, all these mitochondrial things that we’re seeing today. And so that’s the key to restoring health is you have to avoid the poisons first and you have to recondition the memories.
Dave Wow. That is so fascinating. And it is common knowledge that Omega six is bad and that whole ratio between Omega three and six and nine experts talking about that. And I’ve actually never heard this before. This is fascinating what you’re saying. Now of course we understand those oils, most of the cooking oils, especially if people are using, you know, it feels to me like they might as well be petroleum products.
The Pro’s and Cons of Eating Petroleum Products.
Well in fact, canola oil, which was rapeseed oil in the old days, it used to be actually used for lubricating machinery. It wasn’t ever considered for consumption. And in fact there was an interesting article that was a mouse experiment. They were looking at olive oil versus canola oil for, in an Alzheimer’s model. And it was really interesting is that they found the canola oil made the Alzheimer’s disease in the mice much worse. And they weren’t expecting that at all because canola oil is produced and promoted as a healthy oil, right. And yet it’s not at all. If you look at the way it’s processed and you can find it online, if you watch a video of how it’s made, you would never touch it… Ever.
Dave: So I use two oils pretty much exclusively. I use olive oil and avocado oil. So am I doing okay?
You’re doing okay. So Avocado oil is actually a good omega six oil, try not to cook with it too much. Olive oils and Omega Nine, it’s actually neutral. It has other things in it that are good. But as far as the fats that are contained with an olive oil, it’s neutral and you can cook with it. But not with really high temperatures. Never let the oil smoke. When it’s smoking it’s denaturing. So, it’s interesting if you look at French cooking, the key to French cooking is they hardly ever use high temperatures and they use tons and tons of butter.
The French Paradox
Dave: We have The French Paradox, right? They eat high fat diets and we don’t, and they’re not fat. And we are…
that’s right. They smoke more, they drink more and they live longer, it’s very interesting. I was recently saw a retrospective, a of 60 minutes, the show 60 minutes that’s been around forever in the states. So I think it was, it was Morley Safer that died last year. They had a retrospective, so he went to investigate the French paradox and I think was in the early eighties and he’s sitting down to a meal with a guy, a French chef, and he says, look at the amount of fat in this, you know, had a Foie Gras and it was covered in truffle butter and like the plate was full of fat and he said, how can this possibly be good for you? It’s so high in fat and it’s like, but that’s the key! It is high in fat. That’s when you eat at a good French restaurant in France, the portion sizes are small. They’re high, high in fat content. So it satiates because high fats actually make you feel fuller longer and they’re full of good fats. So this is one of the reasons they’re so healthy.
I see. What other oils do you recommend?
So I also recommend if you’re doing any higher temperature cooking, you use coconut oil. Coconut oil is very good for the brain, but 60% medium chain triglycerides, very good for you. And then I also supplement with with an Omega Oil. It is an all organic cold pressed oil that’s a cold pressed in a blanket of nitrogen. And it happens to be an oil produced by my company, Pure Life Science and its name is Pure Form Omega and you’ve tried it yourself and you can, you can say what it did for you even though you’ve only been on it for a few weeks.
Yeah. So that brings us back to how we met. You were actually there representing pure life sciences and then she treated product. And that was kind of fun, getting some of my stuff and gave me some of your stuff man. And I’ve been really fascinated with this synergy between, between supplements. You know, to me there’s not a be all bundled supplement. I’m almost trying to try to find the rate ratio. And one of my problems is that I’m constantly beating myself up because I love exercise. Right now I’m trying to gain some muscle. So I’ve been kind of bulking up and actually going through a Precision Nutrition, a body transformation program because I’m a precision nutrition coach, so I’m following the program myself. And now I’m going to bring in three products here because you have an Omega product and we’re going to talk a lot about that.
Dave: I’ve been a fan of Omegas, but taking fish oil for years as my solution. In addition, we have our own turmeric products, Mimi’s Miracle Tumeric, which is a phenomenal product and we’ve got to human clinical study on it. We had 120 people with osteoarthritis in their knees, 60% take a placebo, 60% take the Turmeric and achieve 94% reduction in pain after 60 days, which is wonderful. But then I have the formulator get on the show and I can’t remember what episode that is, but those of you interested in terms of supplementation, supplementation really oughta listen to that one. And he said, well, you know, this is a really wonderful product, but you really ought to take it with glucosamine Chondroitin. I was like, okay. And he says, because think of the Turmeric as the mortar between the bricks and the glucosamine Chondroitin being the bricks, right? So you’re building back the joint and the Turmeric is helping in that process. And now I think you’re the scientist so correct me if I’m wrong, it seems to me your product creates the trifecta. I think if if I do the turmeric, glucosomine and your Omega Product and get rid of the fish oil that I now have a perfect storm of healthiness for my cells and joints. How does that sound?
A Quick Primer on Joint Health and Pain Management in the Joints.
Yeah, you’re right. And there’s a reason for it is that the Chondracytes, which are the actual cells that make the cartilage in your joints are actually don’t have a blood supply. They’re supplied with oxygen passively. So anything that promotes oxygenation through that system is going to make the healthier chondracytes. And so when you’re trying to rebuild a cartilage arthritic knees or arthritic joints and things like that. You’re right the Turmeric is actually amazingly good for inflammation, fact it beats every antinflammatory in the market head to head in every clinical study done. What’s also interesting, it’s one of the few substances ever been shown to stop the inflammatory cascade of a concussion. Anybody who’s had a concussion knows that when you initially had the concussion, you don’t feel too badly, but over the next two weeks it tends to degrade and get tons of headaches and brain fog and all this other stuff, high high doses of tumeric like you’re describing actually stop that inflammatory cascade, which is cool. So I use a lot of Turmeric in my practice as well. But you’re right the Trifecta is once you put in something that’s going to really improve oxygenation to Chondracytes, you’ve now created the perfect storm of rebuilding from arthritics. This is why patients, or people who use the product notice such a difference in arthritis. I get this consistently, I’ll tell you one good story cause it’s not just people, right? So I have a patient who had a 14 year old chocolate lab that could not go up or down the stairs anymore cause of bad arthritis. And she asked me could I give the product to her dog? And I said, yes, it’s very safe for dogs. It’s all weight based dosing. So it’s very easy to dose for dogs and kids and all sorts of things. Within two weeks the dog was going up and down the stairs and starting to go up for longer walks and now has a girlfriend down the street.
Cause dogs don’t lie. They’re not trying to please us because they know that you’re giving them something good. They know they just don’t hurt anymore and they go up and downstairs. I thought that was a very powerful story. And so, you know, the magic, it’s all based on good biochemistry. What’s another interesting kicker with our particular products, we also have a little bit of what’s called Gamma linolenic acid, which is not an essential fatty acid, but it’s from evening primrose oil. It actually promotes the production of a prostate gland inE1 which is a fat based anti inflammatory molecule and has to be the most powerful anti inflammatory molecule the body makes. So you’re also not only improving your health, you actually are reducing inflammation through the body’s own mechanism with this product, which is fairly unique and not many products actually have that property with that in them.
Remind me, what’s the name of the product?
Okay. Pure Form Omega, it’s a combination. It’s an organic combination of Evening Primrose oil, Flax Seed oil, High Lineolic Sunflower oil, Pumpkin Seed Oil and Coconut Oil. It gives the proper ratio of two and a half to one of Omega six to Omega three. it’s all cold pressed under a blanket of nitrogen. And if you look at the capsule, it’ll have a bubble in it. And that’s a bubble of nitrogen, which means we don’t have to use any antioxidants or preservatives in there. There is a little bit of vitamin E and mixed tocopherols just for light, to prevent degradation. But it makes that capsule shelf stable for 18 months to two years. And you can be sure that this is a pure organic product. You couldn’t get fresher if you just picked it yourself and ate it.
When did you develop this?
So we licensed it from the developer. I’m not a formulator, I know a lot about science. But, what actually happened is when I started getting my health better, I of course wanted to learn about why nutrition worked because at medical school, we don’t get taught a lot about nutrition. In fact, we had one 45 minute lecture and what was really interesting is when I started doing my fellowship for anti aging and regenerative medicine and was mostly relearning everything I learned in biochemistry and forgot about. But I listened to an interview with a guy who is a formulator. And when you start talking about fatty acid metabolism, it’s one of those things that light bulb just went off and we said that guy is right. And therefore what we did is we, I got ahold of him and, and he, basically had the formula but not much marketing. And with, with another partner we acquired the rights to manufacturing it. So it’s been an interesting journey. it’s one of those things that, you know, one of those times in your life that, you know, when something just goes off and you say that’s what we need to do. That’s it, that’s the right path. And it’s been a great journey since then. Lots of great stories.
Dave: I love it. You know, it’s interesting because of my own history with fish oil. I’ve been taking it right up until I met you. It took you about three minutes to convince me to get rid of my fish oil and take a plant based product instead. Cause I just got it, the light bulbs went off for me very quickly. Just like they did for you. And next thing you know we’re talking product and I’ve got some and then, you know, I had taken it for like a week when I’m like, I gotta sell this on my website. We’ve already ordered products from you. For those of you listening, if you’re interested in this product, by the time we publish it, it’ll be on dirobi.com So you can go there and learn about it. So I’ve got rid of my fish oil, I’m taking this and maybe you could just make it clear for those who haven’t gotten so far from the science what you’ve said, just dumb it down for us non-sciency people of why this plant based Omega product over a fish based product.
Can You Be Deficient In Something that Comes From a Mile Deep in the Ocean?
Sure. So, well he can look at it from a couple of different directions. I like big picture things. So, first of all, if anyone’s taking fish oil, you got to ask yourself, why are you deficient in something that comes from a mile under the ocean, which an evolutionary point of view we would never have access to. So the fact that we can be deficient in fish oil doesn’t make any sense off the bat. We should be taking stuff that grows at the same temperature we do, which is plants. And there are only two essential fatty acids that we need for our diet. Our body actually makes all the rest of the derivatives we need. And that’s the 18 carbon omega six which is called a linolenic acid and the 18 carbon omega three, which is called Alpha linolenic acid or ALA, and they’re all from plants.
None of it is actually from animals. And it makes sense. You know, I like things that make sense from an evolutionary point of view. We’ve been eating plants our entire existence. and so our cells are actually made of these things. About 99% of the actual Omegas in our product actually stays in his native state. It doesn’t get digested, it actually gets transported and plugged right into your cell membranes directly in an unaltered state. So, supplementing with the essential fats that we’re destroying, by processing our food makes perfect sense to try and recapture cellular health. So, the biggest thing is when people try it, they don’t come off of it. Like our reorder rate is 97%. So, you know, it’s interesting cause people will say, “well, will I notice a big difference on it?” And I said, well, I don’t know, but go on it for a while and if you ever come off and then you’ll definitely notice a difference. People sometimes don’t notice when they get better, but they always notice when they get worse.
Why Plant Based Omegas Beat the Fishy Stuff
And so I’ve tried to dumb it down and say, look, there are only two essential fats and they’re from plants and therefore we should supplement with plant based. Omega is not fish based. We don’t need, we’re not deficient in Omega’s that come from an animal that we actually would never be exposed to in our evolutionary history. You’re going back millions of years, right. And so try it with that perspective. It makes way more sense for us.
Developing a Personal Supplement Strategy
Dave: Now, I want to talk about this issue. You’re dealing directly with clients in a physician patient relationship. I’m a certified health coach and I do have people that I advise to the limit of what I’m legally able to do. But of course it’s different when you’re a physician and you’re prescribing and they’re coming to you with symptoms. Now I deal with people at the level of supplementation, right? We’re a supplement company. That’s what we do. And I’m an athlete. I’m 53 years old and still trying to get stronger. I’m still trying to take care of my health. I am very interested in longevity and flexibility and energy and all of the aspects, strength, quickness. My Golf game. I’m very interested in the lifestyle that comes from from being as fit as possible.
And one of my frustrations with the supplement industry and with the people who buy the supplements is with the mindset, right? Because what I’m trying to do because of my goals is just making sure my body has everything it needs so that I can be at my best. I may not feel right away when I make a health change and because I’m already generally fit, I tend feel things less than someone who is out of shape getting back into shape. They tend to really notice stuff when they start getting what they’re deficient in. For example, someone deficient in vitamin D who starts taking vitamin D can very quickly feel a difference. But because of that, I think it sets some people up for failure. So there are some people who are deficient in something, but they’re getting by. Okay. And so they start taking supplements and they want to feel something with everything that they take.
And I wish I could just say to people, you know what, if you just did your own research and came up with a supplement strategy that you’re going to do because longterm, it’s best for your health, even if you don’t notice, right? What if you just came up with the list of things you really ought to take and you committed to take them because you want your body to still be healthy when you’re a hundred years old, not because you want to feel some cool effect in two weeks. And that’s kind of what I struggle with is trying to help people. If I could go through people’s supplement cupboard right? There’s people that when we open their supplement cupboard and they had this magical juice from a network marketing company that’s 50 bucks a bottle and you’re like, why do you take this one? Oh cause I went to the meeting and this person had cancer and they took this, now they don’t have cancer.
It’s really awesome. But they don’t have vitamin D, they don’t have an Omega product, they’re not taking the basics. They don’t have a Multivitamin, right? And that may be an extreme example, but you see where I’m going, right? If we go through the people’s supplement cupboard, we’d like to see a certain set of the basics that people take, whether they feel anything or not. So, that was kind of a very long kind of weird, weird question. But you get the idea. And I’d like you to just talk to that and the concept of supplementation, whether a person feels something or not.
So we have several issues, coming together that is really screwing things up. First of all, we are raised in a culture where we think that one pill does one thing, right? It’s like if you have this problem, take this pill. So we have this mindset that if we take a supplement, it must be good for only one thing. And we ended up trying to fit a lot of different supplements in to try and cover all of these different bases when you don’t really need to. The other thing is people are looking for something, some magic pill that’s going to make them feel better right away. So when when I talk about supplementation, I would say, look, the DNA of ourselves are very good at doing their job, as long as they’re getting the right nutrition.
And, one of the problems we have today is our food is terrible, right? Even organic food is not as rich in nutrition as it used to be through commercial farming, over farming and things like that. So what I tell people is you’ve got to have your basic micronutrient, which is your nine different minerals. You’re complement of B vitamins and vitamin D. You’ve got to have your plant based Omega cause that’s what your cell membranes are made of. That sort of the bare minimum for everything. I often also put people on high doses of of Turmeric. And the rest of it, that I use personally is, you know, maybe I’ll throw in some adaptogens or something like that if they, if they have high stress levels, but if you just stick to those basic things and keep the poisons out of your food, you’ll probably do okay.
You don’t have to go crazy with the supplementation, but there’s some basics that you do need an everyday basis. And I always tell people, look, you didn’t get sick overnight. You’re not going to get better overnight. Give it a chance. Right. And generally if they stick with it for three months minimum. And so try and stick with it for three months, try to do the dietary restrictions, trying to do the supplementation regime. Almost anyone can do it for three months. Right? And then they’ll start, they’ll feel so much better at the end of that. They won’t drift back. Cause what ends up happening is everybody cheats and, and I’ve done it myself. I mean everybody does. But what happens is you, your body, you’re know more in tune with your body, your body will tell you cheated and you’d be much less likely to do it.
Again. It’s like that we’re still like the Pavlovian, you know, Pavlov dog thing where we, you know, we do something that makes us sick and we’re much more adverse to doing it. Again, we’re, we’re still all have that basic psychology units. So if I can get someone to clean up the Diet for three months and, and really on the road to health, if they cheat and they go fall backwards, they’re going to feel it and they’re, and they’re, and they’re much less likely to do it again in the future. So, so, so I try and get people easy to work with, you know, and I’ll cut it down to a month, like, cause some people, you know, they just look at you when I tell them that, you know, kind of to gluten and dairy for a month and they just look at it, you have three heads.
So how could I do that is a good story for it. I had a guy who, a patient of mine, migraine sufferer, he also diabetic and overweight and stuff. He got the flu and he couldn’t eat for two days. But what he noticed when he didn’t eat for two days is that he didn’t have any headaches. And so when he was able to eat, of course he started eating as gluten and stuff. And so because he’s eating toast and things like that, cause he’s recovering from the flu in his head, he came right back and I said, well maybe you should avoid gluten for a little while and see what happens. And of course he looks at and says, no, can’t do that anyway. You do. You know, you can tell a hundred people in a room the right answer, but only about 30% will ever listened to you.
You can get very frustrated because you can deliver the right message to many, many people. And, and it’s frustrating when people don’t pick the right answer and you watch them, you know, sort of decay in front of you and you just keep saying to them. But you know, I had a friend who had Crohn’s disease and I kept telling him about this, you should be doing this, should be doing this, should be this. It’s only taken them five years to listen to me and now he says, oh my God, I feel so much better. Wow. Five years. You just keep hammering away at some people, maybe they’ll change, but it could take a long time.
Dave Yeah. Human Nature. And then of course we all have our own personal struggles as well. so we do the best we can with what we’ve got. Again, I guess I really think we are talking to the 30% just because who listens to podcasts? Right? Person’s gotten pretty interested in health or they’re not going to listen to a health podcast and you can listen to someone else. So we’re probably, we’re talking to the right people. I’m sold silly on, on your pure form of Manga. I love the concept, it makes nothing but sense. It’s evolutionary leap sound. As you mentioned, I’ve been taking it and I love it. I feel good. Like I told you before the interview, I am almost constant pain somewhere. I’m just constantly dealing with it because I’m constantly putting pressure on lifting. Yeah. I mean yesterday I had a student, the 355 pound dead lift and you know, and I started at 135 and worked up for 20 minutes.
And so I probably did 50 deadlifts yesterday and today I feel it. And so I’m constantly beating my joints are the workouts that I do. And again, I’ve got a great turmeric product, one that one of the very, it’s actually the only one in the country I found that has a human clinical on it. So that’s pretty exciting. and I’m taking the glucosamine conjoining and now I’ve got your omega. So I just feel like pain wise, that’s a really great combo. But you mentioned you also sell in an oil form. Like are you actually cooking with this?
Don’t Cook with Pureform Omegas, but DO give it to Fido.
No, no. Don’t cook with it. It’s too unstable for that. They’re stable at room temperature, but it’s, once you raise the temperature on an oil, you increases oxidative nation quite dramatically. So never cooked with it. But the liquid version is more for kids because it’s got no real flavor to it. So you can actually put it on food. Dogs actually love it. So good for dogs. vegans because of the capsule encapsulated version is, is gelatin and vegans don’t like that very much. It’s a bovine gelatin is no pork in it. So that’s, that’s good. Some listeners need to know that. but the only provisor with the liquid is, it’s made in the exact same way, but once the bottle is opened, it needs to be consumed within two months because one is exposed to oxygen. It, you try it, you gotta use it so you, you can’t let it sit in the back of the cupboard for two months because you may as well just throw it out after that because it’ll will start to oxidize eventually. It’s around day. According to the studies, it’s around day 36 to 48, somewhere in there it, the oxidation will start going very low level. But if you look at oxygenation curves of fats, it starts out, it’s like a, it’s like an exponential curve. So it starts off low, but the more it oxides of the faster it oxidizes. So, so, so it’s a exponential curves. So I would advise everybody to use it up by, by at least day 60 no matter what, or just toss it.
Okay. So now I want advice for my dog. My dog has been limping on her, her, every time she plays aggressively. She’s an Olympic around, a little bit clapping. She’s young. She’s just about to turn three generally really healthy, taking her to the vet. She’s even had chiropractic adjustments, which actually helpful to little help. but she’s got some kind of inflammation or problem in her hips. So you gave me one of the, these, these small oil, I don’t know if it’s a sample or what. It’s probably four, five, four ounces. Yeah. Okay. So how do I give it to my 50 pound dog?
So a quarter teaspoon per 30 pounds, but you don’t have to worry too much about being exact with dosing because it’s very safe because it’s what our cells are actually made of. you don’t have to worry about giving a little bit of extra. okay. Won’t effect it, won’t have any adverse effects. So what I do, just put it right on top of their food dogs actually love the flavor of it and just, and just, you can take a teaspoon, put a half teaspoon regular food, or just take it a little, a few, you know, like a, like a five or six, seven drops in, just just put it on the food and you do that every day. And hopefully in a couple of weeks you’ll notice a difference in the ability to maneuver and get around.
Another question for. The instructions for the pills tells me to take my body weight to determine how many to take daily. You know, it also tells me that I could take two pills before exercise.
Yeah, it’s about 20 minutes before the body’s ability to transport fat around is actually really efficient so it gets in your system quite quickly.
Dave: Okay. So here’s what I do. Time restricted eating. I don’t have breakfast till 10 o’clock in the morning. So what I do, I get up, about six, six 30. I’m at the gym and I’m doing a fairly hard exercise now because I’m not going to eat til 10 what I do is I take all my supplements first thing in the morning. I’m taking my, Turmeric, I’m taking your product and I’m taking a multivitamin. I take the whole thing before I go to the gym anyway, which includes the pure form Omegas, which is just according to my body weight. So I’m not getting any extra. If I took two before I worked out and then later I took him out according to my body weight, I’d be getting two extra capsules per day. Correct. So how should I do?
Well, what’s really interesting, you’re doing intermittent fasting. 99% of the fats in the capsule stay in their native state. So they actually don’t add calories to your diet. You’re not breaking any fast when you’re doing it. And so on your non workout days, you just take your body weight’s worth and on your workout days you take two extra and it’s perfectly safe. You don’t have to worry about overdosing. In fact, you can safely, as someone who is acutely inflamed, you can safely give two to three times the dose for up to four months without any adverse effects whatsoever. And people do do it. I’ve got bad diabetics or people with open wounds or even people with cancer, are quite inflamed. You give them big, big doses. and it’s very safe so you don’t have to worry about overdosing.
Pretty Dramatic Pain Management Stories By the Doc
You are seeing people have dramatic experiences, right?
Oh yes, there’s a lot of stories on our website. You can link to those testimonials. I’ve seen amazing results. Both in wound healing and people with chronic conditions. One of my patients was in consideration for a liver transplant. Well, six months of supplementation, and she doesn’t need a liver transplant anymore, which is pretty, pretty amazing. I’ve had one person to come up to me and say that he was on dialysis and doesn’t need dialysis anymore. I mean those are extreme examples, but you know, getting yourself healthy can be very powerful, it just shows you the power of healing cell membranes. I mean, I’ve just been astounded at how well it works.
Dave: You know, those people who had those really incredible experiences, were they doing anything else along with this?
The ones I told you, the only change they made was going on going on our product. That was it. So it all starts with the cell membrane.
Dave: Well it makes nothing but sense. I mean, you’re a scientist, you’re a physician, you know the studies, you know that the experiences you had with your own patients, and this has been a really great interview.
Now before I let you go you have not only helped a lot of other people in their journey, you have personally gone from someone who was on the wrong track physically to someone who’s very healthy. So why don’t you just share some of your tidbits or life experience or advice you give for living a good life and being as healthy as possible.
On Having a Super Duper Life and Stuff.
Yeah. So a lot of people feel that they need to exercise their way into health, but you cannot exercise your way out of a bad diet. So number one, stop putting crappy stuff inside your body. Got to avoid the toxins. That’s rule number one. When you want to optimize health, that’s when supplementation comes in. So I take my range of supplements, which are just basically as you described, I take turmeric, I take my Omega, I take my B complex and all that, and my vitamin D, and basically most of that, your body is pretty good about taking care of itself. You don’t have to go crazy with these esoteric things unless you have certain issues that come up such as, you know, if you’ve got heavy metal toxicity or you’ve got exposure to molds, or some sort of environmental thing.
Good Health is Not That Difficult.
Yeah, you’re going to need help in that area. and don’t be afraid to go see a naturopath or, or environmental physician or a complimentary alternative physician to help you deal with that. But for basic basic health, you know, it’s not difficult. It just requires you to make a couple of changes in your life, sustain those changes for at least a month of two. And your body will tell you that you’re doing okay. It’s how you feel. A lot of people get really enamored with blood tests. I don’t, I just stick to a few basic things like vitamin D levels and things like you know, your B 12 levels and some mineral levels. So easy things to do like that, but you know, if you’re healthy, you’ll feel better. And that’s the biggest thing that you can change in your life to help you feel better. That’s the biggest indication that you’re healthier. If you feel better, don’t rely on numbers.
Dave I love that and that is an excellent way to end our interview with a nice, upbeat message of simplicity. I mean, that’s what people want to hear, right? They want to hear that it’s not going to be super difficult. It’s not going to be super expensive, but it’s the simple things that make the difference.
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